I was at a friend’s house a few days ago. Her husband, an intelligent man who I quite like, always makes a point of asking how the “book writing” is going, although what he really means is “how much are you making?” I know this to be a fact because he has, in the past, actually come right out and asked me how much money I earned from my books.
I didn’t ask him what he earned, or if he asked his dentist, lawyer or next-door-neighbor how much money they made, though I was sorely tempted. Instead I explained that for every $1 a book sells for, the bookseller (Amazon, B&N, Chapters/Indigo etc.) will take 40-45% off the top, the publisher will take anywhere from 50 to 70% of that, an agent, should the author have one, 15% of that, and the author…well, you get the idea. Unless you’re selling a million copies, you’re not buying a chateau in France.
Anyway, since that time, “Joe” no longer asks how much I’m making. Instead he asks how many books I’ve sold—no fool is our Joe, who, after years in the financial world, can quickly do the math. This time his approach is a bit less direct. “So, have you sold 100,000 copies yet?” he asks.
“No,” I tell him, “Not yet.”
“50,000?”
I shake my head.
“Not even for all three novels?” He’s incredulous at this point.
“Well, to be fair, A HOLE IN ONE just came out. I won’t have a royalty statement for that one until mid July.” I refrain from telling him it’s never going to make up the difference between my current sales stats and 100,000 copies unless a miracle happens (hello, Ellen, hello Oprah, are you reading this?) but Joe is no dummy. He’s already figured out I’m lucky to be paying for groceries with this gig. 
“So, this is a hobby for you, then,” he says, and it’s about then that I decide he’s going to be the victim in my next book. There are some perks to writing murder mysteries. Even ones that don’t sell 100,000 copies.
“It’s not a hobby,” I tell him. “I don’t have a work pension. My books are my pension. I’m in it for the long view.”
He raises an eyebrow and casts a surreptitious glance at my friend. I know what they’re thinking. Delusional.
But here’s the thing. Way back in another lifetime, my first fulltime job was as a file clerk in the credit department of a major North American insurance company. I didn’t have any job experience or skills to speak of, but I was smart and willing to work hard, to take courses and learn from others and apply that knowledge, but most importantly, I believed in myself. Not once did I doubt that I’d make it.
And I did. Within 5 years I worked my way up the ladder, promotion after promotion, to Personal Credit Manager. Two years later, in a time when women in upper management was as rare as hen’s teeth, I was offered the position of Canadian Division Credit Manager. I also had the honor of being the youngest Division Manager (male or female) in the company’s history.
I may never earn enough money from my books to buy a chateau in France, but one day I’ll sell 100,000 copies. You read it here first. Because I’m taking the long view. It’s never let me down before. It’s not going to let me down now. And even if it does, I’m never going to admit it to Joe.
Other authors, have you been asked how much you earn? If so, what was your response?
I might tell the rude person, “a lot more with my small publisher than when I was with XXX (major publisher).” But I’m more likely to ask with an insincere smile, “How about you? How much do *you* make?”
Hi Sheila, I need to make a list of snarky responses! Thanks for stopping by.
After selling some 100 books to traditional publishers (I’m now self-publishing my Safe Harbor Medical Mysteries), I’ve received nosy, rude questions many times over the years. The simplest answer to “How much do you earn?” is “Not nearly enough!” That usually ends the conversation.
Great response, Jacqueline. I’m going to use that one. Thanks for stopping by.
Judy, I love what you wrote. LOVE what you wrote. Yes, we are in it till the bitter end. Yes, this is WHAT WE DO and there is no shame in being a writer because it’s the hardest goddamn work you’ll ever do (outside of raising kids).
You keep on keeping on. I’ll be with you every step of the way.
Thanks Stacey…I’ll be following you too! Honestly — would you ask your plumber what he made?
Wow, this post really resonates with me as I’ve had similar conversations. I tell people exactly what you did. I make about a $1.00 a book on a $15.00 book and less if the retailer is discounting it. It always surprises me a little when I see the shock on their faces, but I don’t mind sharing that type of reality. Won’t share my book sales numbers, though, except with my hubby. He’s my accountant. 🙂
Hi Debra, this post seems to have resonated with a lot of folks. There must be a lot of “Joes” out there!
I have found the easiest way to silence the question is with this response. “Well, royalty checks come in at various times from the various publishers. Like last week, I got one for something I wrote over 5 yrs ago. How much was it? Enough for me to treat the wife out on the town for the night and have a few dollars left over.” What the nosey busy-body doesn’t need to know, the night on the town was to McDonald’s $1 menu; two burgers, one fry, one drink. Investment: $4. Off to the movie theater for their Tuesday night 2-for-1 price AND before 5pm for the matinee price. Of course, I’m a senior citizen so I automatically get a discount. $4.50 for the two of us. Still, no reason to tell them that. Then the real expense – the refreshment bar. There is NO way to beat that one – $12 for a large popcorn and 2 large drinks, another $3 each for boxes of candy – a whopping $18. Yeah, I had some money left over – not a lot, but enough for me to enjoy a cup of coffee and munchie at the local bistro w/ my writing friends. LOL. When you look at it from THAT perspective – money for something I wrote over 5 yrs ago; only winning the lottery could top the exhilaration. When they frown, thinking, I can always add “Yeah, it happens 2 to 4 times a year.” which really stumps them. I never reveal the real amount. As stated so many times before, they aren’t telling me how much they make; why should I reveal my income?
I like your style, Bob! Kind of reminds me of when I was a teenager and I’d tell my mom I was going to the library. I did go, for about 2 minutes, and then I beat it to the Drop-in center at my high school. Not technically a lie…
My last royalty statement for a short story I wrote (in an anthology) was for 32 cents. Hard to spin that into anything 🙂
I’m with you on this one. I may never make a fortune, but there are usually paychecks in my account each month. Even if they are small. OTOH I’m great at selling free books.
Thank goodness ‘friends’ are such a great store of characters to be assassinated.
Hi Jemima, I hear you on the free books — why do folks assume we don’t have to pay for our books? Or that we make huge margins on them? Another topic for another day.
Ah, ‘Joe the Jerk’ … we all seem to have at least one, don’t we? May his ‘character’ have an appropriately jerk-y demise.
P.S. I arrived here via ‘Chris the Story Reading Ape’s blog. 🙂
Welcome Widdershins, nice to see you here. Please pop by again!
Judy, I laughed when you said Mr. Nosey would be your next fictional victim! He’s the kind of person who just doesn’t understand that writing a book is a dream for so many and that then publishing that book and having readers enjoy your work is worth more than money.
Shari, the irony is, he doesn’t even read books. Newspapers only for this guy.
Ha, no one has ever asked me that, but I have done such a bang up job of marketing (please note sarcasm) that no one knows I have written 2 books.
Something to look forward to! Get your answer ready 🙂
This is a great discussion. Thanks for starting it, Judy. When I was first starting out in fiction, a woman asked my husband if I was world famous. He said no, and she sniffed and turned away. People feel they can ask writers anything, no matter how absurd. People have asked me how much I make and I get around it by asking them if they’re thinking of taking up writing. That seems to startle them into silence. At a recent conference I was on the other end of this conversation. At lunch I sat next to a writer who talked about how much she made from her five series, how dedicated her husband was to promoting her work, and how she had given up her job to be the family breadwinner. She kept throwing out hints about how much she made, so I gave in to temptation and asked. How much? Everyone else at the table was listening intently by this time. She said her monthly income was in the high four figures. I’m not sure I believed her. But I think from now on I’ll tell people that some of my colleagues make an annual income in the high five figures and let them wonder if I’m one of them. You’ll get to the 100,000 mark, Judy, and then I can give them your name.
Love it Susan! Would have been more fun if you hadn’t asked…that would have burned her!
Joe definitely needs to be the victim in your next book. Might I suggest a creatively slow death at that.
Congrats to you on finding and pursuing your dream. Writing is not a path for the weary or financially preoccupied. Lol.
Thanks for stopping by and leaving a comment, Nina. Poor Joe, it does not appear he will come to a good end.
You have exactly the right attitude, Judy! We’re in it for the long haul. It takes time to build a career one reader at a time. Someone told me, when I was looking for my first publisher, “You know it’s really hard to get published.” I looked at him and replied, “Somebody’s going to be published, and it might as well be me.”
Great answer, Edith. We have to believe in ourselves, and in so doing, others will believe in us.
I’ve had that happen a few times, and I’ve got two separate answers, depending on the asker.
1) “I hate paying taxes, so I always keep my net earnings under $400. So if I make $20,000 in royalties, I’ll be sure to spend at least $19,610 on promotion.” Let them think what they want.
2) “That’s the second stupidest thing I’ve heard all day.” And if they bite on that bait and ask “What’s the first?” “Whatever you say next.” I’ve used that one just once, smiling broadly throughout. (I came up with that one when the Canadian Prime Minister corrected a woman’s use of “mankind” to “humankind.”)
Sidebar: In my first novel, I put in an annoying, arrogant guy I know exactly as he is with a side goal of having him never speak to me again. It worked; not a word in over five years. Whee and whew!
Once I told someone it was great fun to see my monthly royalties go from three figures to four … and then, under my breath, to add “that’s including the decimal point.”
Another response, when they know I write thrillers under my Jake Devlin pen name and erotica under a female one, I say, “Her books outsell mine two to one. It’s true, sex sells.” And then go on to talk about my in-process anthology of many authors’ outrageous short stories.
Luckily, I’m retired and don’t NEED to earn anything from my writing.
Vibes heading your way for the 100K copies. (I’ve got a 5% success rate on those.)
Jake, your comments just made my morning. Thank you for making me laugh out loud.
Ah, a laugh out loud; my work here is done. You’re welcome. SCR (Sorry, Couldn’t Resist). Raising beta-endorphins is very satisfying.
I did enjoy your post and the multiple comments on it. 100K vibes will continue.
If you’d like, I’ll make him the victim in my next book, too!
Go for it Mabry!
I’ve never had this happen, but because I’ve known that it happens to other writers, I’ve thought out a response.
“You first,” I’d say.
Probably the other person will ask what I mean.
“How much do you make?” Nice smile.
Depending on reaction:
If other answers, I’ll either say, “that much?” or “that little?” (I hope, “that little.”
Most likely, I think the person will not answer.
If he or she does and then insists I give a firm figure, too, I’d say “That would be telling.” Then either “more” or “less” than you do.
If the person keeps pushing, I’d ask if he or she asks everyone else they know how much they make?
If they say no, I’ll ask “why not?”
This could go on for a while, couldn’t it? 🙂
Hopefully, they’d eventually realize that what they are asking in inappropriate. Of course, there’s no guarantee of that!
Great post, Judy, and I know you’ll have a lot of fun with your new character for the next book!
Thanks Jan. I’m mind-boggled how many people this happens to!
Oooh, I like this game 🙂
Keep working as hard as you have been, Judy, and you’ll be at that 100,000 mark in no time. I’m always amazed when people ask me how much I earn or how much something cost. I usually laugh and say, “Not nearly enough for…” So, next time someone asks, fill in the blank. “Not nearly enough for a private jet. What did you make last year.” They will be so shocked that you turned the question on them that they will realize quickly how rude their question was.
Love it. Not enough for a private jet…too funny. Good answer! Thanks for your belief in me Grace.
There are two answers, depending on who’s asking.
The first, generally reserved for people who know me, is, “I’m in it for the amusement and happy that it’s a hobby that pays for itself.”
The second, reserved for people who have no right to pry, is, “You know, I’ve never really counted it, but I’m sure my business manager knows.”
I chafe a bit at the tend that this is a by-golly business, and there are financial goals that need to be met or one is a flop. I made a very good living in media and publishing and picked up a lot of skills that are helpful today. But I am technically retired — which means it’s my turn to goof off, have a fun time, play.
My favorite story as to why I “work” at writing for no particular recognition or reward is a golf tale.
A guy (or gal) dearly loves the game of golf. Plays a couple of times a week at least, sometimes more, sometimes with friends, sometimes alone. Probably took some lessons a while back, certainly invested in some good clubs, and makes every effort to play the game as well as possible.
One day, our golfer is out on the course and it really all comes together. The swing is perfect, time after time. The drives are long, well-placed. Irons are in gear, especially the short ones, which leads to great putting opportunities and some really terrific runs at the cup. On a Par 5, our golfer launches a tremendous drive, the best ever. Now comes the quandary: lay up or go for the pin? Every experience, all of logic says “lay up, play it safe.” But not today. A terrific iron shot parks that puppy six feet uphill from the pin. Another tense moment. The club is literally shaking in the player’s hands. Deep breath. Soft backswing, it’s away…. and plop.
An eagle. The first ever in all the years playing the game.
Only there is no gallery, no applause. No leader board, no sponsors, no TV people, no trophy, no prize money, not even a witness. Just the stunning moment of the ball in the cup and the soft wind whispering past on a gorgeous sunshine day.
The question is, should the golfer play again tomorrow?
By all the standards of “making a living” at golf, our player is a failure, a flop, a person with no reason to persist … in simply enjoying the game. People ski, golf, play basketball and tennis, paint, perform on stage, take on civic tasks, hike, sail, and on and on and on. Some as a casual amusement, some with a degree of effort, some with great passion. Would I like a million dollars for my next book? Sure, of course, but that’s not very likely. Will I write it anyway? You bet. Because getting from “Chapter One” to “The End” is as addicting as a game of golf.
As a golfer, Geoffrey, I love this golf story. Some days I lay up and play it safe and some days I go for it, all depends on how I’m playing that day. But no matter how badly I might be playing, I never think, “I’m going to quit this game.” I might go to the range and hit a bucket, or take another lesson. Or I just might have a glass of wine and a giggle with my foursome. And yes, From Chapter 1 to The End is addictive. I’d never thought of it that way, but, you’re right! Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
First of all, let me congratulate you in advance for selling your first 100k books! Second, I love that you’re thinking of certain “perks” of being a mystery author after speaking to Joe. I’ve had one or two people ask me the same, and I just say, I’m getting closer all the time. Great post, Judy!
Thanks Lida! Love the perks! And I’m holding you to that 100k promise…
Judy,
Enjoyed this post and the comments it inspired. I’m beginning to feel left out because no one’s asked me how much I make from writing. Of course, at my age, all of my non-writing friends are retired. We writers continue on doing what we love best.
I’m so glad you enjoyed it Marilyn, and maybe your friends have more class!
When asked I often respond along the lines of: Stephen King sells in the hundred thousands. My books sell in the hundreds and thousands.
That’s funny, Terry. I may use that and pretend I made it up 🙂
You handled Joe very well, Judy. I’m constantly running into people like him, some fairly close friends of mind. Authors seem to be targets for all kinds of personal questions.
It’s amazing, isn’t it Rosemary? I feel like saying to Joe — “What do you earn?” But I’m not that rude.
Too funny! I have been on the receiving end of that hobby comment a few times. I never know how to respond. I can see that being able to pay the bills is important, but if that was our only motivator a lot of our creative impulses would be silenced. What kind of a world would that be?
I have no doubt you will get to 100,000 copies sold, Judy. Your books are awesome!
Thanks for the compliment, Lucia. Write on and prosper 🙂
These are wonderful comments. I had to chuckle a few times. If I had hoped to get rich from writing, I’d be terribly disappointed. After retiring, I can enjoy writing stories for fun. I will never be homeless, or sitting on a curb with a tin can for spare change to feed my dogs. Of course, that depends on how much I spend to market my stories??
Judy, I love the idea of your new character!!
Thanks Sheri! I’m getting a kick out of the replies.
Good morning, Judy! This is such an interesting topic that I’m sure you’re going to garner a lot of comments. As you know, authors sometimes have to suck on antacids after a round or two with people like this.
As far as what my response is when asked these type of questions, it depends on the person. I have a friend who’s always asking oblique questions, but you know what they’re getting at. He hasn’t said, “How much are you making?” yet, so I can answer as obliquely as the question, usually with, sales a picking up, or I’m holding my own.
But, we went to dinner with a couple one night(recent acquaintances), and I could tell immediately it was to question me about all aspects of writing. Mainly income. When the wife finally confronted me to share with her what I made, I just smiled and said, “Do you ask everyone their income when you meet them?” She blinked and replied no. Then I continued with, “You know it’s considered impolite to do that…so, let me advise you, before you decide to go into this business, don’t walk up to authors and ask them what they make. The same social rules apply to us as to anyone else.” It was a bit tough, I know, but rude is rude. She then asked if I earned at least $500,000. (Tough cookie, right? Rude didn’t slow her down at all) I laughed and said, “No.” She then informed me that she wouldn’t work for less than that.
So, there you have it. Just when you think you’ve been as candid as you can be, and that it should slow them down a little, there’s always one more question lol.
Again, for me, my response depends on the person. I have noted your choice of retaliation, though, and am making notes:) I’d say your idea is thoroughly healthy therapy 🙂
Wouldn’t work for less than $500,000? Wow. I can’t imagine what that person does for a living, but they have a seriously altered view of reality. Let me guess, she didn’t pick up the check.
I’ve gotten this question multiple times, most recently from a fellow writer. I imagine, coming from someone in the field, this person was just trying to measure how they were doing. I handle it, always, with a vague “it’s going great” and start talking immediately about the project that I’m working on or the next one to be published. I’ve only had one person persist after the vague answer. I wish I could say “that’s none of your business” but I know I never will. I save all the sass for my characters 😊
Hi Amy, I think a fellow writer, I might be able to accept it better – – but yeah, I wish I could say “none of your business” or “back at you.” Good thing we have the creative outlet.
Yep. I think you should kill off Joe in your next book. I’d buy it! LOL
In the works, Mary!
2017 was the first year I made a profit on my fiction writing, five years after my first sale. It was a modest sum. Like you, I’ve been asked that question about money. I’m glad I didn’t quit the day job, and when I do retire, I’m planning for my writing income to be supplemental travel money for me and my husband, who has never expressed a concern about the lack of profitability of my business. He knows writing keeps me sane. Thanks for sharing your experience, Judy.
Thanks for stopping by Catherine. You’re right. Writing keeps us sane.
It was a good thing I wasn’t sipping my tea when I read your blog today. I would have snorted the brew through my nose when you decided then that your neighbor was to be your next victim. I hope I am one of the first to congratulate you when you hit the 100,000 mark. I have no doubt it will happen. All best!
Glad you enjoyed the post, Micki. I wanted it to be fun, as well as send a message. Fingers and toes for 100,000.
Hi Judy, I would be hard pressed to spend anymore time with “Joe” – and I agree he deserves to be a victim in the next book! I write because I have to, I enjoy the process behind the story and I’m always learning new things.Nope, not published yet. And I get annoyed with people who call what I do a “hobby”. But I’m getting closer. Writing isn’t a get rich scheme, but it would be nice if it paid off that way 🙂 My go to would be Ellen 🙂
Hi Rose, yes, dancing with Ellen. Maybe we can get on the same episode 🙂 Keep on writing, believe in yourself, and your vision will become a reality.
Good for you Judy! You said it and we are all in the same boat and we do it for the love of it, the long term reward and because we are compelled to write. If money bought happiness, we would all be miserable. But it doesn’t and it sounds like your ‘friend’ isn’t a happy man. 🙂
Write on, Janice!
I’ve made about a hundred dollars on my first novel, To Die, To Sleep, and my second novel, The Vampire Circus, will be published by BRP this year. Outside of that, not a penny yet, except for chump change on short story contests, but luckily I’m retired and draw a pension.
Good to see you here, Garrett (great name, the name of my bad guy in my first book, The Hanged Man’s Noose!). Here’s hoping you get your Oprah moment!
Love the idea of using Joe as the villain in your next book! I’ll have the remember that the next time someone asks how much I’m making. The first time was after I had published a biography of Jimmy Carter during the 1976 campaign that sold well. The children of one of my finance oriented cousins asked me the question, which surprised me at the time, but probably it shouldn’t have, as that branch of family measures people in terms of how much money they make. Rather than give them a figure, I replied, “Enough to buy a piece of property,” which was true, bur still a way of getting around naming a specific figure. Later, a member of the same family asked me the same question, and like Joe, kept probing until she’d figured out it was a relatively small amount, and exchanged snide looks with her financier husband. Now, thanks to your post, I know who the villains will be in my next book.
But seriously, if someone asks me that question again, I’m going to answer with a question of my own, “Have you ever done anything for the sheer love of it?”
Well said, Leslie, but Joe wouldn’t understand doing “work” for the love of it. Like your cousin, he places value on money first and foremost. But it’s nice to see I’m not alone!
Hi Judy,
Most writers do not earn a lot of money. A few do. I don’t consider it a hobby either and so don’t submit my work to non-pay publishers or publications. However, I really started my writing career full-time after I retired from teaching. I encourage people to keep their day job.
That is good advice Jacqueline!
I’ll wager even Stephen King is shocked to be making as much money as he does now. Writing–like most of the arts–is a crap shoot. No one can predict what the future holds. If money was the only reason most of us write many would have quit long ago. Hello, Oprah, are you out there?
You are so right, John. It’s what we are just as much as what we do. Hopefully your call to Oprah goes through cyberspace and reaches her!
I’ve tried to figure out why writers get such rude questions, and I’ve decided it’s because the arts are so difficult for bean counters to grasp, they need numbers. They’re probably not going to read your books and see how fantastic they are. They want some quick, quantifiable way to see if your writing “counts.”
First, they ask, “Are you published? No?” Then they ignore you.
“You are published? By who?” (Not whom. They are troglodytes.) Then they ignore you.
“You are published, but how much money did you make?” Then they ignore you.
“You are published, you made money, but did you win the Nobel Prize for Literature?” Then they ignore you. This is the Jennifer Weiner conundrum.
He wants to feel superior. More fool him. Carry on with your awesomeness.
Thank you Melissa! And you as well.
You will get a lot of pleasure out of his victimhood (diabolical smile). One reason some people may ask such a question is that they’ve always harbored the desire to write a book themselves–a candid answer might discourage them.
I say that, but every would-be writer seems to think their book is the “exception.” Not much plot? “But that’s how it really happened!” 250,000 words? “That’s how I want to write it.” Ohhh-kaaaaay.
Your solution is the best. Just keep going . . .
I do think, Vicki, that most people have an inflated idea of what 95% (maybe 98%) of authors earn. I always say I’m not making Stephen King money…yet.
I have every confidence that you will meet all your goals Judy! Your books are fun mysteries!
Thank you Arlene!
My DH (Dear Husband) occasionally asks me how many I’ve sold, always when sales are low, on good days he never seems to ask? As for anyone else? You would think that being a writer is similar to have some sort of socially unacceptable disease and no one even mentions books or writing.
Hi Lucinda, I get a lot of people asking what it’s like to be a writer but only “Joe” seems to think it’s okay to ask what I make!